cymbal life

[Trickle X]

What kind of life are you folks getting out of your cymbals? I have used Zildjans over the years & I have crack'd every single one. I switched over to Sabian & have not cracked one. I usually go for the thins, so I know they are more prone to cracking. I just cant break my sabians though. I have recently being trying out the Signatures from Paiste, but I cracked one of them, an 18" full crash. Whats the deal-e-o? I really like the sound of the paiste's but 2 b honest, I like the sabians just as much, not to mention they are a lot more inexpensive.

Currently in my setup are 13" paiste soundedge sig (not sure if I liek them yet), 10" sabian aa hats, 6" & 8" sabian aax splashes, 6" & 8" paiste accents, 16" sabian aa thin crash, 18" paiste full crash sig(cracked), 21" sabian aa rock ride(i think), & a sabian 18" aa chinese.

I am looking to add more range of crashes, say a 17 & maybe a 19 crash, a 12" splash & 10/14" chinas. I am torn on what brand to buy though, as I relaly like the sound of the sigs, but I am afraid they just wont hold up. I have seen a few people come into the drum shop when I have been there with cracked sigs.

I am open to any suggestions, I have been checking out cymbalsonly & I am really digging some of there stuff.

Thanks

[tbone]

Something's wrong! :? I never cracked a cymbal, and they're mostly Zildjians.

[-Brian-]

I'm in the same boat as you, Trickle. I play all Zildjians, and they all crack on me. I just chalk it up to ****ty technique, unfortunatly...

[PDFrogman]

I play zildjians, sabians and UFIP. notice I left out Piaste??
the only Piaste I've ever owned other than a set of sound edge hats was a 16 crash I owned for about 2 weeks and it cracked along a lathing line near bell obivious defect I brought it back Sam Ash told me it's my problem. I'never bought another piaste! I've seen a few that I've liked just could never bring my self to plop down the cash for another.

[Anonymous]

I wrote a little about this over at Drumblog! (http://drumblog.com/page.php?page=archives/2003/12/28/index) in December and I really don't understand how people break cymbals constantly.

I'm not playing soft things (Zep,Janes' Addiction,Hendrix), but I play with lighter sticks (maple) and just let the mics do the work. My main ride is a 20" Paiste Sig Power Crash, that purchased with a 1" crack in it. This cymbal is as thick as my old A Zildjian Medium Ride. Unless you're using thick sticks, how can you crack something as thick as a Power Crash? Aside from breaking cymbals, what about wrists? If they're breaking bronze, what's it doing to the much less denser bone?

The only cymbal I've cracked, is my favorite 16" Sabian HH Thin China. And I had it mounted bell down and played it using some of Bozzio's ostinoto (sp?) patterns. That put all kinds of pressure on the bell, so I wound up with one nice crack from the bellhole. Other than that thin of a cymbal, I haven't cracked any of the Sabians, Zildjians, or Paiste's that I've owned.

[mkelley]

Um, that's me. So I don't know why it's saying "guest"...oh and where be me duckets for that post?

[Flyin6]

I have had my four Zildjian med-thin crashes since 88/89 and just in the past year or so I have seen cracks in my two 16's. For their first 3 years I tortured them with Vater 2B's at super high volume.

But I contribute cracking to poor technique- be it with the hands or stress of the cymbal not being able to swing freely and disipate the energy.

[mkelley]

I think that may be it Flyin6, My cymbals are angled down and really loose on the stand. Nothing like how Tommy Aldridge or Ginger Baker clamp down their cymbals.

[RedSparkleSet]

I've owned a lot of Zildjians over the years. I cracked one china when I was 16 using graphite drum sticks. (pretty smart)

You have to leave them loose. The angle is important, but your attack is just as important. Cymbals have a natural way to vibrate. You can't go against that. Have you ever played a big gong in a symphonic setting? A gong needs to be primed a bit before a crash.

Every cymbal is different. Feel how it wants to vibrate and use your technique to attack the cymbal in a manner consistent with the way it "wants" to be struck.

Every drum has a sweet spot where you can hit it to get the most volume with the least effort. The same idea applies to cymbals. You find a cymbal's sweet spot with your ears not your eyes.

[applejax]

Bigger thicker cymbals will break because they are hit and they dont stop vibrating so its constantly moving. This happened to me with ONE (the only sabian cymbal ive broken) of my 21" rides. But its also from 89...so that might be a problem too. But it happened to a friend also with a new Zildjian Z Custom. Bigger cymbals and thicker cymbals tend to break near the bell... because the Bow vibrates but the bell doesnt. So this tends to break alot of them...

[WacoKid]

I'm a die hard Paiste lover. I just about cried when I broke an 18in Sound Formula reflector. Then my 19in 2002, then an 18in Rude 2002. I completly attribute it to poor technique and trying to compete with 2 guitar players. When I see how some guys playing their cymbals, I am amazed that the big 3 even bother with a warranty. Anyway, I've been trying to use better technique and not play so bloody hard. I wont say that any one cymbal co. has a bad product simply because of the way they are produced. (perhaps the reason there IS a warranty). I just have a hard time believing that dealing with molton metal is a slam dunk for consistancy.

[Kanbasher]

I gotta say that I have busted plenty of cymbals (but never a ride) over the years & I think it had more to do with technique (or lack of) and band volume than the quality of the cymbal. Probably playing too hard too at times. I haven't busted a cymbal in quite some time. I play all my cymbals, except chinas, completly flat. Over the years I have lowered the height of them & probably mount them a bit looser. I play Paiste's but before I played them I had Zildjians & I busted them too.

[Anonymous]

HMM I never broke a cymbal. I have all Sabian's except my hihat which is a Zildjian A/Z Dyno Beat 13". I play medium hard, but I try to take good care of my cymbals and not to ambuse them.

[Mike]

I got a 10 yr old Sabian 16" med thin I bought used. I beat the piss out of that thing and so far no problems. I do have my cymbals angled a little bit to help from breaking them. I also have a B8 pro China splash that I totally abuse. Its 3 yrs old and so far no problem other than some scratches and stick marks on that one. I do agree with the theory of big heavier cymbals breaking easier. Itt makes perfect sense. That thick heavy metal isnt going to handle the vibrations as well. The thicker the metal the stiffer it will be.

[Kroffer]

I mostly play Zildjians and I have never broken a cymbal, neither with Paiste or Sabian. And I play hard rock and beat the hell out of them every day, so it must be all about technique. And then again i hit my crashes on the edges (which is not the proper way to hit a cymbal btw), so I am just lucky I guess.

[Trickle X]

Thanks all for the replies. I dont really hit my cymbals hard, now my snare, thats a different story!! I break lugs & snares all the time. I think I just had a bad couple of cymbals, or might of had them setup just wrong one time or another, 2 tite or angled wrong. I crackd a 15" thin Zildjan around the bell, not sure how that happened, but probally from having it to tite once or twice.

[Enraged Panda]

Breaking lugs and snares? You using tree trunks for sticks? Maybe you SHOULD think about technique and stop blaming the cymbals. I've played Zildjian forever. I play Z customs. I've broke every single one, they always...ALWAYS crack along the hammering. Not a very smart pattern I personally think. If you see a new Z custom you will see what I mean. I just traded in my two cracked Z's (The projections, thick as hell) for two more...I think those will be my last two Zildjians...I need to branch out. I will try Sabian...but I still cannot stop using Zildjian Sweet Ride...damn that thing sings for jazz and washes very nice on rock. God I love that ride. I've broken one of them too, around the bell. But that's because I abuse it, so I'm surpise it lasted as long as it did (2 years). I'd like to hear some more stuff about the longevity of your cymbals. I don't know much about Sabians line, do they have any really thick cymbals? I've played some A's before I got the Z's and they just felt...too light to me. I like to feel something when I lay into the cymbals. I seem to feel like I'm just hitting paper when I play A's.

Wow that was a lot.

[Kanbasher]

EP...check out some Paiste's. You may like the Rudes and Power Crashes from either the Dimension's or Signature line if you like thick cymbals. Personally, I like 2002's and am real fond of the "Medium's".

[Ox]

I cracked one cymbal only. It was a 16" Zildjian Medium Crash which I got with my begginner set. I blame it also on improper technique.

[Anonymous]

In 30 years I've cracked only 2 cymbals. I've played all brands and all styles of music. It's difficult to comment on this without seeing how you play, but you may just be overplaying them to compete with the band. Cymbals will only go so loud no matter how hard you hit them! A better investment might be some good mics and backing off on the cymbals a bit. Also, maybe have a drummer you respect check out how you play. They may be able to see what you are doing and help correct any problems, sort of like a sports coach.

[Trickle X]

copy.....

[Mike]

Hey Panda... The Zildjian Sweet ride kicks ass. I love mine. Had it for 2 years. I pound the crap out of mine. It's so very versatile. Crash it, ride it, whatever you wna to do with it. Awesome cymbal!!

[WacoKid]

Hey Panda, I've seen those new Z-Customs break exactly how you described it. Some of them looked like they exploded! Personaly, I thought the original Z's sounded better anyway.

[Kanbasher]

Hey Panda, I've seen those new Z-Customs break exactly how you described it. Some of them looked like they exploded! Personaly, I thought the original Z's sounded better anyway.

Yep, the older ones weren't bad...now they just have a "clank" sound to them.

Here I go again but to me Paiste seems to be the only cymbals that offer thick and/or heavy crashes that still have a nice sound to them. Dare I say musical. They just get it "right". Those new Sabian Metal whatever they are...clank! Just like the Z Customs.

Also, Paiste just added power crashes to the 2002 line. Check 'em!

[PDFrogman]

I've heard more cracked paiste stories than I've heard cracked zildjian stories.
take a look at the sabian AAX metal series

[WacoKid]

Seems like cymbal choice is a bit of a hot button for some. :lol:

[patpimp]

I switched over completely from Sabian to Paiste about a year ago.

I have never broken a cymbal... am I strange?!

My current setup of Paistes include a couple of thinner, medium volume models (one signature mellow), and in the band i am playing in righ tnow i am hitting harder than i ever thought i would in a band, much harder than i would like to. Still, after a year, no signs of abuse or wear. But i know my day will come... and it will probably be on a more expensive cymbal.

[Kanbasher]

Seems like cymbal choice is a bit of a hot button for some. :lol:

Just like snares & chicks (or guys for all you girls). :D

[JamesMcCrary]

I have been playing for 19 years, 10 professionally. I do change my cymbal setup probably every other year or so, just because something better (to my ears) has come out. But, for 6 years, I played the same K Custom dark splashes and crashes. I have never even had a problem with keyholing, much less cracking. I agree, chalk it up to technique. Check out Sabians website for cymbal height and angle suggestions, that will help tremendously. Just last year, I switched to mainly Paiste Sig's and Sabian HHX Evolutions. And I play on them 2-3 hours a day, atleast, and about 10 hours total on the weekend. I don't play soft, but I am not Mike Portnoy either. I do play fusion and contemporary jazz, which some may consider a "soft" music ( which it is not, its not like dixie or bop jazz), but I lay in to those cymbals all the time. I don't see anything but stick marks on the cymbals, no bends cracks or keyholing.

[DrJam]

I've broken plenty of cymbals, unfortunately, over the years; everything except a ride. Most of it probably goes with trying to play too hard. This may go against the grain of a couple of posts, but sometimes I think thicker sticks can actually _reduce_ the probability of breaking a cymbal. Here's why: I've played in situations before where I only had a mic on the kick, so I knew I had to hit the snare and especially the toms hard for them to cut through. Well, it's hard to hit the drums hard and the cymbals soft, especially when I was playing with 5A's which are relatively light. I switched to 5B's so I could hit everything "softer", yet get a bigger sound. Well, that's really worked on what kind of abuse I've put on my hands (fatigue, blisters, bleeding, etc. have gone waaaaay down), so we'll see what it does to my cymbals, because I'm really hitting everything with much less force (except maybe the snare!!!).

My $.02,

DrJam

[...gach]

i have never ever cracked a cymbal, they are zildjians and i love them!

[Woodrow]

I've cracked hats, and 20" crashes! But I also played very hard back then. I rarely break cymbals in normal use. And those cracked cymbals were from a 4 month tour. I have a 16" 2002 Crash I have had since I was 15. I also have an 18" 505 that is almost as old. I stopped using them for live work with loud bands as they were not appropriate for that work.

If you had sent your cymbal back to Paiste, they would have replaced it. Sounds like Sam Ash did a ****ty job of taking care of the customer. You still might get paiste to take it back. Give them a call. When the crack rums along the lathing, it is defective. If I goes from edge to bell (even diagonaly) it is being played too hard. Repeatedly hitting the same cymbal before it has stopped vibrating can also crack it. Add anther cymbal instead of hitting the same one over and over again. Angle your cymbals towards you a bit and make sure to use cymbal sleeves on your stands. Also, don't use a top felt on your cymbals. Let 'em swing.

[Crazy8s]

I posted this elsewhere, but it has been my experience that heavier cymbals crack more readily. They don't flex as quickly as a thinner cymbal does, so the impact is more focused. Having more pressure in a concentrated area leads to them cracking more often. I know this sounds retarded, but it is what happens.

When I worked for Guitar Center in Tempe AZ., I had lots of my friends and customers bring cracked cymbals in to get warranty replacements. There were two guys in particular that were bringing in cymbals all the time. One guy played for a metal/punk band called the Mob40s, and the other in a band called Pollen. Both guys were ****ing awesome drummers, and knew what they were doing. They both played either ride cymbals as crashes or Z's. Watching them play, I never felt that they hit much harder than I or most other drummers do, they just liked the sound of the really heavy cymbals.

I have used quite a few different cymbals, and it is always the heaviest ones that break on me too. I have had 2 medium thin crashes, 16" and 18" from Sabian that I have had for a long time that have been hit just as hard, for a longer period of time that are still crack free and sound even better now. Chinese style cymbals on the other hand are an entirely different story. I like the way the real chinese cymbals sound, Wuhan's and such, but I crush through them like butter. They are typically mounted in such a way that there is no where for them to swing to when I hit them. (with the bell down). One way to make them last longer is to hit them on the top if you have them mounted inverted, but I am a slacker and like to hit them on the lower portion.

[Kanbasher]

I said it once & I'll say it agian...for china cymbals...CYMBAL SPRINGS!!!
Yes, they do work kiddies.

[Crazy8s]

I know they do work Kanbasher, but it makes me feel good to say that I broke yet another cymbal! A-n-imal! A-ni-mal! Good thing is that Wuhans are cheap!

[...gach]

I know they do work Kanbasher, but it makes me feel good to say that I broke yet another cymbal! A-n-imal! A-ni-mal! Good thing is that Wuhans are cheap!

man your a crazy cymbal crashing fool!! :lol:

[Woodrow]

Also the Whuan S Series Crashes are quite good and pretty cheap. My 16 S Series blends very well with my Paiste Signature crashes. They might be good for folks who are prone to crack cymbals. Also, their warranty is one year, no questions asked.