Saluda Mist 12" Mystery China Splash for Smoke [Archive] - DrumShed

SaludaCymbals

10-09-2005, 04:20 PM

Smoke asked us to make him a 12" china splash for his stacks. We told him we were making him a mysterious china splash. This comes from the 2003 Mist brilliant series (notice no added cold/hand hammering). This also has the first edition 2005 engraved logos. We are now on the 3rd and final edition for the current logo style (which will be changing shortly).

Here it is:

http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/images/Mist_Brilliants/12mistchinasplash.jpg

http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/images/Mist_Brilliants/12mistchinasplash2.jpg

http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/images/Mist_Brilliants/12mistchinasplash3.jpg

We enjoy new creations.

Jamie

Girlfriend

10-09-2005, 04:33 PM

I've never seen a cymbal like this. What effect do you get from it?

SaludaCymbals

10-09-2005, 04:53 PM

The sound is bright but still fuller toned than expected with the vents. The cymbal has a delay response. It doesn't react quite as quick as one might think but the cymbal is a little on the medium-heavy side. This sounds like a pure china splash. Maybe Smoke will pitch in a better describe this thing.

Jamie

I've never seen a cymbal like this. What effect do you get from it?

magicbus1216

10-09-2005, 09:26 PM

is that flipped inside out? because if it is, i just did that today and i thought i was original by doing it first and t looks like you guys already did it

SaludaCymbals

10-10-2005, 12:15 AM

It is not exactly flipped inside out. The shape and bow is shaped by hand crafting it. I guess you can flip your cymbals inside and out but you will damage your cymbal. Have you ever taken a nail and wiggled it back and forth to break it off. The same applies to your cymbal that are you are flipping back and forth. It simply stretches the bonds and eventually the bell will let go and crack.

Smoke will also notice that about 1/2 of the edge is also raised just slightly to give its multi-dimensional sound.

Jamie

is that flipped inside out? because if it is, i just did that today and i thought i was original by doing it first and t looks like you guys already did it

smoke_n_drums

10-10-2005, 02:34 AM

This is a very interesting cymbal. I was totally surprised when I saw it.

It's a 12" Mist Splash with a modified profile. Basically it looks like a cymbal that has been turned "inside out." The major difference is the profile is a deliberate step in making the cymbal.

Sounds: overall the sound is splashy with a china bite that isn't as abrasive as an actual china of this size (yes, I have one of those too.) The sound is "pah."

This cymbal has two distict sound zones: regular and "holes." Play the regular half and the sound is splashy trashy, speaking quickly and having a short sustain. Play the vented side and the sound becomes a little less emphatic and more airy with a slight shimmer.

This cymbal also has a smooth build up went rolled on cresting with a shimmer that retains some trashy undertones. sounds like: shshshshshshshshshshshshshsaaahhhhh

The reduced mass knocks this cymbal down a touch in terms of overall power. For me that is OK since, IMO, some 12" splashes tend to be more of a small cymbal with a wimpy crash rather than an actual splash cymbal.

I don't foresee any durability issues with this cymbal. If you are a heavy handed player you may want to avoid the vented zone.

Jarick

10-10-2005, 12:07 PM

SaludaCymbals

10-10-2005, 01:23 PM

The added cold/hand hammering marks add a little to the complexity but most of the trashier tones in some of the crashes are from the shape of the overall cymbal. The big three hydraulically press their cymbals into a very uniform shape. While this doesn't greatly diminish trashier tones and low end, it also diminishes fullness and complexity. Saluda, Bosphorus, Turkish, some Meinls, Istanbul and other Turkish plants hand shape the cymbal.

We have a brilliant Mist series (hasn't been officially named yet) without the added hand hammering marks. These are available but they just haven't been officially released yet.

Jamie

Jamie,

Out of curiosity, why wasn't this guy hand hammered? I'm wondering if that's what's giving some of the Saluda crashes that "trashy" quality that many people have been talking about.

Any plans for a non-hand hammered Mist series? Might be a bit generic sounding, but it might do the trick for that kind of sound...

But you know more about cymbals than I do.

Jarick

10-10-2005, 03:39 PM

The added cold/hand hammering marks add a little to the complexity but most of the trashier tones in some of the crashes are from the shape of the overall cymbal. The big three hydraulically press their cymbals into a very uniform shape. While this doesn't greatly diminish trashier tones and low end, it also diminishes fullness and complexity. Saluda, Bosphorus, Turkish, some Meinls, Istanbul and other Turkish plants hand shape the cymbal.

We have a brilliant Mist series (hasn't been officially named yet) without the added hand hammering marks. These are available but they just haven't been officially released yet.

Jamie

Ahh...that makes sense! So what are the advantages/disadvantages or differences between cymbals with and without the hand hammering?

Seems to me that the alloy and cymbal casts are there, and you can really shape the sound with all the different options you've been offering...

Ugh, I need more money...must...order...22" Hybrid Ride!

Oh, the 20" 'Pure Chinese' or whatever sounds great! I'll have some sound clips from the latest demo of my band up in my signature with it.

smoke_n_drums

10-10-2005, 09:15 PM

Jamie,
Out of curiosity, why wasn't this guy hand hammered? I'm wondering if that's what's giving some of the Saluda crashes that "trashy" quality that many people have been talking about.
Any plans for a non-hand hammered Mist series? Might be a bit generic sounding, but it might do the trick for that kind of sound...
But you know more about cymbals than I do.

I've two distinctly different sets of Saludas: "Clear" and "Trashy."

My "Loud & Proud" set is powerful, bright and clean with only the slightest hint of "trash."

My "Blues Set" is down right old school: "trashy"....dark and full of frequencies. Very expressive.

I feel that too many drummers are asking for something that we might not really have: a Mist that sounds EXACTLY like an A Zildjian. <----or any other Big 3 cymbal

A hand crafted cymbal will always have some grit or trash....I call it musicality....some call it complexity. It's a natural result of the process.

Many drummer have played my "trashy" pies **I co-host TWO jams a week** and most didn't like them when playing them tippy tap by themselves.....played (and heard) with the band is a totally different story.

Bright and clean is one thing.....bland and generic is another.

The performance of a cymbal depends not only on it's physical specifications, but ALSO the musical environment and player's technique.

PremierDrumsJRS

10-13-2005, 08:26 PM

I've two distinctly different sets of Saludas: "Clear" and "Trashy."

My "Loud & Proud" set is powerful, bright and clean with only the slightest hint of "trash."

Smoke, which series of Saluda cymbals do you feel fit into your "Loud & Proud" set?
Are they the Mist Hybrids?

I have noticed too that when I play my Mist Brilliant crash in a band situation that it really takes on a quality of its own --- it cuts through and always sounds musical.
I have a great set of Mist Brilliant hi-hats and a really nice ride that Jamie picked out for me.

smoke_n_drums

10-14-2005, 04:24 PM

Smoke, which series of Saluda cymbals do you feel fit into your "Loud & Proud" set?
Are they the Mist Hybrids?

I have noticed too that when I play my Mist Brilliant crash in a band situation that it really takes on a quality of its own --- it cuts through and always sounds musical.
I have a great set of Mist Brilliant hi-hats and a really nice ride that Jamie picked out for me.

My "Loud & Proud" Setup

14" Mist Hybrid Power Hats (Marked inside the bell as: "pure power")
14" Mist Trad Med-thin Crash
16" & 18" Mist Hybrid ,Med-thin & Med Crashes
20" SSXD Ping Ride (Prototype)
19" Voodoo Hybrid
Following EFX as my mood suits me:
12" Voodoo Brilliant
10" Smoke Stack (10" Mist splash mounted bell to bell under a 10" SSX China)
10" Mist China
7.5 Voodoo EX Bell

The key to getting your sound(s) is explaning it(them) to Jamie. The Mist series is unique and has a wide range of applications and sounds available.

In terms of finish, in general, this is what I hear:

Trad Finish has the most higher frequencies. Cutting, powerful, expressive.
Brilliant Finish has some of the harsher high frequencies are muted. This gives a warmer sound with a shimmering quality
Hybrid falls in between the two.

bluesman

10-14-2005, 04:31 PM

My "Loud & Proud" Setup

14" Mist Hybrid Power Hats (Marked inside the bell as: "pure power")
14" Mist Trad Med-thin Crash
16" & 18" Mist Hybrid ,Med-thin & Med Crashes
20" SSXD Ping Ride (Prototype)
19" Voodoo Hybrid
Following EFX as my mood suits me:
12" Voodoo Brilliant
10" Smoke Stack (10" Mist splash mounted bell to bell under a 10" SSX China)
10" Mist China
7.5 Voodoo EX Bell

The key to getting your sound(s) is explaning it(them) to Jamie. The Mist series is unique and has a wide range of applications and sounds available.

In terms of finish, in general, this is what I hear:

Trad Finish has the most higher frequencies. Cutting, powerful, expressive.
Brilliant Finish has some of the harsher high frequencies are muted. This gives a warmer sound with a shimmering quality
Hybrid falls in between the two.
hey Smoky-
How much do you pay your cymbal roadie? and how long does it take him to set all this metal up? :o
This is your hole-in-the-wall blues bar set-up ??? :o

king david

10-14-2005, 08:07 PM

man smoke, i wish i could come and see you play. where do you normally play? i cant go to bars and wont be able to for quite some time though.

your set up seems very awesome, i cant wait until the trads come back into production. i could use some of everything.

smoke_n_drums

10-14-2005, 08:37 PM

hey Smoky-
How much do you pay your cymbal roadie? and how long does it take him to set all this metal up? :o
This is your hole-in-the-wall blues bar set-up ??? :o

Last Night's setup

Venue: The Junction (A "hole-in-the-wall" road house on Old Hwy 99)

Saluda Cymbals, All brilliant except for the pre-funked 19" ride
13" Mist Hats Med/Hvy w/vents
14" & 16" Mist Thin Crashes
19" Mist Med Thin Pre-Aged Ride

"Tower Of Power"
12" Mist China (Mystery cymbal)
10" Mist Splash
8" Mist Splash

14x20" Stonehenge BD
8x10" DW Tom
11x14" DW Tom
7x12" Tempus f/g Snare with Smoke's Hoopknocker

LP Drumset tamborine
LP Cha Cha Cowbell (On DW 5520 Aux Pedal)
DW 5002 Pedal <---Not needed but lot's of fun for Solos, endings and ZZ Top tunes.

Neo666

10-15-2005, 02:20 AM

smoke, what exactly is your "smoke's hoopknocker" id love to see some pics

smoke_n_drums

10-15-2005, 09:50 AM

smoke, what exactly is your "smoke's hoopknocker" id love to see some pics

Hoopknockers are handcrafted from maple, bubinga, or cocobolo. Additionally, Red oak and walnut are used for the accent stripe.

I had "issues" with bolting on a mass produced item made from cut up drum shells to a $500 custom snare drum. Owning and totally loving the sound of Iron City Drumworks hardwood hoops led me to contact Joe to make me a custom piece. One think led to another and the result is Smoke's Hoopknocker.

The two shown here:

1st Proto: Cocobolo and Maple seen on a Dunnett 5x14" Black Beauty

Production Version: Maple and Red Oak seen on a 7x12" Tempus f/g. This version uses a drumkey to mount the HK. All mounting hardware stays attached either to the drum or the HK itself. This allows ez removal for travel. You don't need to get a bigger drum case and the mounting bolts, washers and isolators will not end up on the floor of at the gig (usually at the most inconvenient time.)

Crosstick sounds are now available instantly and at higher volumes. The sound is between a wood block and a clave. You can now have a cutting and "woody" crosstick sound that you can use behind a guitar solo.

bluesman

10-15-2005, 09:56 AM

smoke, what exactly is your "smoke's hoopknocker" id love to see some pics
No, No, he meant to say "smoke's head-knocker". It's a length of hickory about the size of a 2x4 that smoke keeps back behind the kit. Comes in real handy for drunk rednecks at juke joints. :o

SaludaCymbals

10-15-2005, 10:41 AM

Did someone say drunk rednecks?

http://www.texasredneckreview.com/RedneckWindChime.jpg

http://www.texasredneckreview.com/seven%20copy.jpg

Jamie

bluesman

10-15-2005, 10:51 AM

wrong...
everyone knows a Redneck 7 course meal is a 6-pack and a possum...or an armadillo...
oh wait....I forgot...you city folks don't have those.... :o

smoke_n_drums

10-16-2005, 02:07 AM

No, No, he meant to say "smoke's head-knocker". It's a length of hickory about the size of a 2x4 that smoke keeps back behind the kit. Comes in real handy for drunk rednecks at juke joints. :o

As much as you say that in jest. There are several very nice ladies who are regulars at my weekly gigs.

They know that if a drunk and obnoxious dude (or dudette) were to "attach" themselves on the dance floor, that they could break free and come up and dance on stage right between me and the Bass player that I keep clear for just that purpose. Well, ok .......closer to me.......much closer :cool:

There is a little redneck in all of us.....some just have more than others.

I do say that things are generally wilder when payday falls on a full moon.

Jarick

10-17-2005, 03:26 PM

Out of curiosity Smoke, what kind of Saludas are you loud and clear set?

That's more of what I'm looking for...something like an Avedis (not A Custom) or a K crash, but with a little more top end than the K and a hit of that hand-hammered sound.

Don't want chinas for crashes, but I like the complex sounds. I really need more money to order more Saludas :(

EDIT: noticed that he already detailed it. Hah. That shows ME not to scroll down the page!

By the way I thought that brilliant cymbals would be a bit brighter. What's wrong with me? I thought "oh it smoothes the lathes and hammering and reduces overtones, making it brighter. Overtones = harmonics = brightness :rolleyes:

smoke_n_drums

10-17-2005, 06:11 PM

I first noticed that a brilliant finish tends to mute some of the harsher high frequencies when I got some A Customs.

Many drummers "listen with their eyes." Seeing a set of super shiney cymbals under stage lights in an arena or large venue is very impressive. The sound is more a function of the PA than anything else.

I co-host two jams a week. One major adantage to this is actually getting to hear my kit, played with different styles, from out in the room.

A high pitched brilliant cymbal will cut just fine.....the exact same cymbal in a traditional finish will be a touch brighter and cutting out in the room and a touch more "direct" with some harsher high freguencies behind the kit.

IMO the 'shimmer" that Zildjian says is part of the A Custom sound isn't a total function of the finish, but the weight and size of the bells found in that series.

Jarick

10-18-2005, 04:31 PM

smoke_n_drums

10-19-2005, 02:17 AM

Nice post Smoke. I spoke with Jamie, think I'm going to try out the Hybrid Mists. They have the brilliant finish as well as the traditional, so it's the best of both worlds.

I hear what you're saying about the "hearing with eyes" thing. I have no idea why it didn't occur to me before. My Z Customs (two I broke and one I'm getting rid of) were always very "clangy" sounding. They didn't have the nice high end like you'd expect. Well, they're high pitched because they're thick, but they're missing those overtones because of the finish. Makes sense now.

On the plus side, I think I found a few hundred dollars worth of stuff I'll be selling, so I'm ordering a pair of hats this week :D

I took my LOUD set to Monday Night Mayhem.........a metal venue last night. I had two drummers play my Saludas. One had ****e cymbals.......he was in heaven. The other had a nice set of A's with Z Crashes. He also liked the Saludas. He said he liked the feel as well as the "matched" sound.

I got a good listen to my Saludas, played by two different drummers in two different bands. Up until then I've heard them from BEHIND the kit. I recommend you do this whenever you get a chance. It'll let you know what works and what doesn't.

The Saludas cut like a knife. The guitars did not overpower the cymbals. Neither drummer preferred a ping cymbal and opted for a 19" Mist Crash Ride instead. While this cymbal sounds really nice at a lower volume, it can also raise up and provide a washy crashy all out, hell bend for leather ride sound.

It was loud and proud, slammin' metal. I got to hear what Saludas can do at the upper extremes of dynamics. While I don't play that style music, I do get a few LOUD gigs on the calendar. It's nice to know my Saludas have the "head room."

I don't go to Monday Night Mayhem often, but when I do I'm always reminded why there are so many "I broke a cymbal" posts on the various forums I inhabit. My Saludas survived but both the 16" and 19" China could have easily let go...the technique on those two was not good. **Edge playing on the china and overplaying the 16"**

My children are now home safe and sound.

SteelProphet

10-19-2005, 07:55 AM

I don't go to Monday Night Mayhem often, but when I do I'm always reminded why there are so many "I broke a cymbal" posts on the various forums I inhabit. My Saludas survived but both the 16" and 19" China could have easily let go...the technique on those two was not good. **Edge playing on the china and overplaying the 16"**

My children are now home safe and sound.

How do you mean "edge playing"? I hit my chinas on the edge too, and I have only broken 2 cymbals in my entire drumming period.

One saluda voodoo thin 12" china but I was hammering that one and a A custom 12" paper thin splash...

smoke_n_drums

10-19-2005, 10:21 AM

How do you mean "edge playing"? I hit my chinas on the edge too, and I have only broken 2 cymbals in my entire drumming period.

One saluda voodoo thin 12" china but I was hammering that one and a A custom 12" paper thin splash...

He positioned the 19" Voodoo "upside down" and horizontal (ala Travis Barker) and hit the downturned edge like a regular cymbal.

The technique that will least likely cause breakage is to strike the shank of the stick on the bend of the flange.

There was no damage, and I looked really hard and you really couldn't tell the instrument had been played hard. Over time, hard playing and thin edges often lead to breakage.

BTW: My bass player was there (he goes often) and we listened from the "sweet spot" in the back of the room. His comments: "They sound like cymbals." He particularly liked the 7.5" Bell which not only cut but was very musical.

bluesman

10-19-2005, 03:10 PM

Damn, I knew it all along...NOW the truth FINALLY comes out....
Smoky desires to be the next Travis Barker!
You live close to a tattoo shop, Smoke? :o

smoke_n_drums

10-19-2005, 06:55 PM

Damn, I knew it all along...NOW the truth FINALLY comes out....
Smoky desires to be the next Travis Barker!
You live close to a tattoo shop, Smoke? :o

Travis blows............Joey Jordison is THE MAN!!!

*** I'll NEVER understand why he left OCDP ***

bluesman

10-19-2005, 07:02 PM

Travis blows............Joey Jordison is THE MAN!!!

*** I'll NEVER understand why he left OCDP ***
yeah, and all that makeup and crap makes him play better, right?
Smoky, stay the hell off that pearl forum, ok buddy? :o
these are very un-blueslike remarks...

smoke_n_drums

10-19-2005, 10:10 PM

You mean to tell me that EVERYONE doesn't want to play a snare that looks
like a bird house?

:confused:

bluesman

10-20-2005, 09:13 AM

You mean to tell me that EVERYONE doesn't want to play a snare that looks
like a bird house?

:confused:
c'mon Smoky...you spose to be a bluesman...
put the crack pipe down, bro.... :o

smoke_n_drums

10-20-2005, 02:19 PM

c'mon Smoky...you spose to be a bluesman...
put the crack pipe down, bro.... :o

Like this?

bluesman

10-20-2005, 04:08 PM

Like this?
that'll work for starters...
but what the hell is that gay looking thing on your hi-hat rod? :o

smoke_n_drums

10-20-2005, 06:02 PM

that'll work for starters...
but what the hell is that gay looking thing on your hi-hat rod? :o

Gay? I don't think so

bluesman

10-20-2005, 06:27 PM

I dunno bro...it looks very un-blueslike...you use somethin like that on "It Hurts Me Too" ? :o

smoke_n_drums

10-20-2005, 06:33 PM

I dunno bro...it looks very un-blueslike...you use somethin like that on "It Hurts Me Too" ? :o

You ARE a blues nazi! :shock:

They'd love you in Seattle. ;)

Do you even play drums during a Johnny Lee Hooker tune?....or just stomp your foot?

:cool:

bluesman

10-20-2005, 06:39 PM

You ARE a blues nazi! :shock:
They'd love you in Seattle. ;) Do you even play drums during a Johnny Lee Hooker tune?....or just stomp your foot? :cool:
Naw...I ain't no blues nazi...
I just subscribe to the "less is more" theory. I've never been to seattle, they like Elmore James' tunes up there?
Hooker? Well, there's different flavors of Hooker...depends on if it's Hooker's delta or electric stuff... :o

smoke_n_drums

10-20-2005, 06:52 PM

Naw...I ain't no blues nazi...
I just subscribe to the "less is more" theory. I've never been to seattle, they like Elmore James' tunes up there?
Hooker? Well, there's different flavors of Hooker...depends on if it's Hooker's delta or electric stuff... :o

We paint the blues with a wide brush.

If it makes you feel any better, I've been using a 4 piece for the last 6 weeks or so.

I do indulge myself by using my "tower of power."

bluesman

10-20-2005, 07:30 PM

We paint the blues with a wide brush.

If it makes you feel any better, I've been using a 4 piece for the last 6 weeks or so.

I do indulge myself by using my "tower of power."
yes, yes, 4 pc. is good. that's a start...
now...that T.O.P.? we're gonna have to have a serious talk about that mess... :o

smoke_n_drums

10-23-2005, 02:02 AM

yes, yes, 4 pc. is good. that's a start...
now...that T.O.P.? we're gonna have to have a serious talk about that mess... :o

Wow, I use this one all the time. I have recently swapped out a vented(!) 12" Mist china splash for the 12" Voodoo

Occasionally I'll go with only 2 cymbals (a "half stack")

The voices I like: Something short/quick with a "bite." a Splash, and something "bell-ish." Luckily, Saluda has given me a few options that allow me to "mix and match."

**Thanks Jamie.**