Some good news, some bad news

[JLee]

Well, got the first of the drums soldered, meaning the piezo was mounted to the bridge, and the wires were soldered to a piece of stereo wire, which was in turn soldered to the jack. I was pretty stoked when I brought the drum back in and tapped on the exposed piezo and heard a note.

That excitement vanished pretty quickly, however, after I put the cone on top of the piezo and the head back on the drum. I am now left with a "sweet spot" of about 1/2". In other words, if I don't tap directly onto the tip of the cone, I get almost nothing. Also, even slamming down on the head with the voluem all the way up, I barely hear anything.

I made sure that I did not cross any wires, and made sure that the negative (ground) ended up on the ring and the red went to the tip. I tried to adjust the threshold on the DMPro, but even with the threshold as low as it can go, I get virtually nothing - a little bit of sound but pretty useless for all intents and purposes.

Any suggestions?

[Stoovey]

Any suggestions?

Buy a set of Ddrum pads? :D

Go totally acoustic? ;)

[Silky7483]

I've never owned a set of these, but I have been reading up on this stuff like a madman...so heres what it might be...

If you get a note by tapping the piezo, the wiring must be right, so perhaps you don't have enough or any of the cone contacting the head. That would explain why it only works when you tap directly over it. Is it a setting on the module that can be changed, like a sensitivity setting? I have NO idea on that but it might be that.

What is the cone made out of? Perhaps it doesn't transfer enough vibration to the piezo. Perhaps the piezo is upside-down? Does that have anything to do with it? Is your bridge spring mounted? Maybe it has too much give?

I'm planning on building one of these the moment I sell off my older acoustic kit tomorrow, so I'm sure I'll be in the same boat as you are!

Good luck!

[JLee]

Thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, there is plenty of cone sticking up over the shell. In fact, I actually tried putting even more up there just to see if it would help, and it didn/t.

I tried adjusting the "threshold" setting, but that did not do anything either. I am not sure of any other relevant settings.

The foam cone is just that, relatively firm foam made by roland for just this purpose, so I don't think the cone is the issue.

The piezo is right side up. That much I am sure of, though little else.

These are spring mounted bridges, but they are pretty stiff, and the bridge is adjusted to be firmly in contact with the head.

I am at a loss at this point. I am starting to wonder if the Alesis module is the problem.

[skaman]

i doubt it is the module. does the pieze pic uf from either side in particular? because if it does it may be upside down like the last guy said. when you were mounting it maybe you mounted it the way that made sence to you but then when you flipped it or something it actually wasnt the right way. just a thought. so im not helpfull at all.

[JLee]

I was told you always mount the piezo with the brass colored side glued to the base and the other side facing up.

Interestingly enough, a little while ago I experimented with some of the settings - gain, threshold, velocity curve, etc. . It did make a difference, but I have no idea as to what setting does what. At one point, the drum was stuttering - I would hit it once and it would repeat 2-3 times. I experimented with moving the cone up higher against the head, and the opposite happened to what you would expect _ I actually seemed to lose some of the response.

I guess maybe a little reading up on the manual might be in order, though most of the questions I have do not seem to be readily available there.

[skaman]

maybe the cone has too much contact? not sure if that is possible. anyways reading that there manual is probly a good idea

[tbone]

I've been following your progress & chearing for you all the way! It'd be great if you could borrow a Roland drum pad from someone to test the module & learn about the setting - seems you've got too many variables to check out.

[HiString]

Jon,

When doing the conversion to Remo practice pads, the instructions are to adhere the peizo's brass side to the metal disc (which you have already cut out and prepared), this is then sandwiched between the two halves of the internal rubber pad and the mylar "head" is fitted over that. When assembling the metal disk and rubber pad into the practice pad housing, the peizo is on the underside , which means that it's brass side is facing up.

This information is taken from...... http://members.cox.net/ampage/triggers.htm

I have some electro-Remos here which I purchased already converted, if it will help, I'll open one up and have a lookysee.

BTW, I realise you aren't using Remos but I would suspect the orientation of the peizo would still apply.

Chris :cool:

[Crazy8s]

You might consider using something like an internal snare muffler as found on a luddy acrolite and use it to support a piezo against the head, but not actually affixing the piezo to the head. I suspect you could chain it with the central piezo so you wouldnt be using two channels on your controller. Just a thought...

[JLee]

Jon,

When doing the conversion to Remo practice pads, the instructions are to adhere the peizo's brass side to the metal disc (which you have already cut out and prepared), this is then sandwiched between the two halves of the internal rubber pad and the mylar "head" is fitted over that. When assembling the metal disk and rubber pad into the practice pad housing, the peizo is on the underside , which means that it's brass side is facing up.

This information is taken from...... http://members.cox.net/ampage/triggers.htm

I have some electro-Remos here which I purchased already converted, if it will help, I'll open one up and have a lookysee.

BTW, I realise you aren't using Remos but I would suspect the orientation of the peizo would still apply.

Chris :cool:

It might just help. Thanks.

I am pretty sure though, that the brass side is the one to be glued onto the platform. Otherwise, I am not sure how you would get enough receptivity with a foam cone and all. I could be wrong here.

Last night, after messing around with all the controls, I did get a lot more receptivity out of the drum. Trouble was, there got to be so much that it triggered when i adjusted the bridge, triggered when I adjusted the head, etc. . I backed down the threshold setting just a touch then it went back to almost no receptivity. I figured that the tip of the cone pushed hard into the mesh head would increase the response, but it did not.

Edrums are very different from acoustic drums in the sense that it is much easier to diagnoses why an acoustic drum does not work correctly (i.e. bad construction, uneven bearing edge, etc.) With these, I like the way things came out, but I have to admit I am a little disappointed that they are so squirrely.

[drummerdan]

Jon,

When I build these drums, I make sure that the cone is just touching the head. There is hardly any "strain" on the cone itself. As long as there is contact, you should be good to go. I had good response close to the edge without any adjustments on my module the first time I plugged it in (I'm using a Roland TD-6V) using this method. Too much contact might be your problem. I've looked closely at Roland's drums and their cones just make contact with the head.

As far as the sensitivity issue, I would make sure you look at you manual closely. If you can't figure it out, maybe a quick call to Alesis might be in order. I'm sure they would help you out on it.

Good luck!!

[HiString]

The pads I have came from an acquaintance in Canada and the DM-5 I purchased from Bi-Polar here on GN. So far, considering the pads are DIY, I'm quite impressed.........one or two may be a bit over sensitive in that they trigger from vibration through the rack, but they are definitely velocity sensitive and these accidental triggerings are very quiet...........my point being that the piezo's definitely work OK without making any changes to the module settings.

It may be worthwhile (if possible) to reverse the piezo in one drum just to see what happens.

:cool:

[JLee]

Since all of the piezos are glued to their platforms already, I can't actually test one of the bridges I already made, but it would not be too hard to create one just for this purpose.

Thanks

[JLee]

Too much contact might be your problem. I've looked closely at Roland's drums and their cones just make contact with the head.
Good luck!!


I will try adjusting the bridge downward for less contact. Certainly worth a try.

[skaman]

i think your prob is that you glued the piezo wrong. im pretty sure that the brass side recieves vibrations and you say you mounted that face down. it should me facing the head.

[WillB311]

E-drum trigger (http://edrum.for.free.fr/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=28)

looks like the brass part is supposed to be facing the head just like skaman said

[JLee]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I will try it the other way around and see what happens. Still, it seems odd that the underside would the one with the white circle on it.

[The Mank]

I always mount ceramic center piece facing the batter head and have never had any problems.
One thing you should always do is test the piezo before you mount it as I have had a few that just don't seem to work well.
Also, if I remember right, you bought the DM5 second hand.If this is the case then I suggest restoring the unit back to it's factory settings, reinitialize, just incase the previous owner has programed something weird.
To restore all factory settings, turn unit off, then hold down the VOICE and OUTPUT buttons simultaneously while powering up the module. You will see the screen read "reinitializing" and it will continue to cycle through initialization until you release the VOICE and OUTPUT buttons.Of course you will still need to tweak these settings but it will give you a good place to start from.


Mank

[JLee]

Actually, I went ahead and reinitialized the kit already. I really don't think that there is anything wrong with the module after testing it some.

Now I am pretty confused, should the ceramic or the brass side face up against the base of the cone?

[The Mank]

Sorry mate,
My mistake...I just checked some of ther stuff I built and yes I mounted them with brass base facing towards the batter head.
Lesson learned...I'll check next time before I post.....

Mank

Did you find any "unshelled" piezos yet?

[dragonninja]

I don't know a lot about these sorts of things, but I'm leaning towards thinking that there might be too much contact.

Peizo's are electromagnetic devices if im no mistaken, and the amount of power/signal they put out will be very dependant on how much movement/displacement from its resting position there is, as current is only made in the peizo circuit from a change in flux, not from the pressure on the peizo.

I think.

[JLee]

There may in fact be too much contact. I will continue to adjust the bridges downwards and see what that does.

Thanks.

[stratocaster539]

Sounds to me like you might have a contact problem -i.e. the physical wiring connection to the piezo has failed.They are tricky to solder!Try these module settings -gain 12,velocity linear,threshold 5,crosstalk 7,rettriger 25,mke sure the correct trigger type is selected.Hope this helps.

[JLee]

Got the problem resolved.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I should have. After all, this thread is about four years old.

Appreciate the advise, though.